Listen as Larry debated William from Virginia regarding the legacy of Thomas Jefferson and the need for mandatory civics tests in high schools.

During the phone call, William explained he would be on board with the civics test being mandatory in schools, just as long as the tests are transparent. Read the exchange below:

O’Connor: William in Virginia. You’re first up on WMAL.

William: I was telling your announcer that I’m a Democrat. I would be for that only on the perspective if you give a honest test. Don’t give this BS story about Founding Fathers pulling themselves up by the boot straps stuff. If you’re going to talk about it, tell the good with the bad. Talk about the fact that Thomas Jefferson raped his slaves. Talk about the fact that slavery was something that these Founding Fathers condone. So if you’re going to give a honest perspective of history then yeah. But if you want to talk about just a rosy story, then I would say no don’t give that test.

O’Connor: First of all, William this is not a history test. This is a civics test. It’s to understand how our government works. You know, the separations of power, the Executive Branch verses the Legislative Branch verses Judicial Branch. The fact that only one actually writes laws, the fact that only one has the purse strings for the budget of our government, how the states interact with the federal government. It’s not about history. And also, furthermore, I can tell you with two children who are currently going through the process of AP U.S. History, pretty much all they’re learning in U.S. History right now is that Thomas Jefferson raped slaves. I guarantee you.

William: Well did he not?

O’Connor: That is pretty much all they are learning right now about Thomas Jefferson. William, let me ask you something. Can you tell me something else that Thomas Jefferson did?

William: I have three kids in my car right now who are listening so …

O’Connor: Can you tell me something else Thomas Jefferson did?

William: Something else that he did?

O’Connor: Yeah.

William: As far as him running [inaudible]? As far as him being the President of the United States? As far as him contributing to the Constitution?

O’Connor: No, what did he do?  Not what position did he hold. What did he do? What did Thomas Jefferson do?

William: I just answered your question. He was the President of the United States.

O’Connor: That’s not doing something.

William: Well that’s your perspective.

O’Connor: Can you tell me what he did as President?

William: No and I don’t care.

O’Connor: You can’t?  You can’t tell me about the Louisiana purchase?

William: Does that matter?

O’Connor: Okay. And in our founding, how did he factor into he founding of our nation, Thomas Jefferson?

William: I just told you he was a President.

O’Connor: No that’s not our founding. The founding of our nation, when we actually broke away from England, was he instrumental in that?

William: Of course!

O’Connor: What did he do?

William: Was he not one of the Presidents?

O’Connor: Oh yes! Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, William. William in Virginia – in Virginia. He wrote the Declaration of Independence, William. But what you do know, is that he was a slave owner. And see that’s kind of part of the problem here.

CALL: 202-432-WMAL (9625) | 888-630-WMAL (9625)

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